Normalization: How To Deal With A Field That Does Not Have Any Associated Data

Oct 31, 2005

Hello.

I have a simple modeling question. Lets say I have the following table structure:

Table 1
-------
Cust_id
Cust_name
Phone
City
Supplier_id
Dept

Table 2
-------
Supplier_id
Supplier_name
phone
City

Table 3
-------
Dept


Table 1 is M-to-1 with Table 3. Table 2 is 1-to-M with Table 1.

I have seen such as schema and do not understand why there needs to be a separate Table 3. Can someone explain why Table 1 alone would not suffice and Table 3 would not be required?

Basically, can someone explain the rationale for normalizing tables when there do not exist sufficient associated data for the field for which a new table is created (i.e. in this example, if Dept had a lot of other fileds associated with it such as Dept_desc, Dept_Mgr etc , then I can see the value in creating a different Dept table and joining it with Cust table through a Dept_id field).

A similar such design exists in the standard "Address Book" sample schema that ships with Access (the analog field in question there is Role).

Thank you for your response.

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Best Advice To Deal With Input Of Data Into Access?

Mar 6, 2008

Not sure if anyone can help but I have an issue I would love to sort out.

Each week I load several excel spreadsheets into an access database (one table) in order that I can check for duplicates across previous weeks and that week (with in excess of 20,000 records on each excel sheet). I created a find duplicate query to identify the records so I can use it to obtain credits. Unfortuantely I am not in control of the data coming to me (or else I would prevent duplicates at source)

Im not sure if this is the best way to try and do this or not. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

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Normalization And Relationships - Don't Know How To Place Data

May 31, 2005

Hi, I want to create an access app that will allow a user to see the number of pages printed by various printers.

These are the data that I have:
Model Type (various are available)
Printer's name (unique to one printer)
IP addr (unique to printer)
Quantity printed (such as Single Legal, Double Legal, Single Letter,etc)

This is what I have (2 tabels with 1-many relationship):
Printers
PrinterID
Model
Name
IP

ModelTypes
ModelID
Model

Now, where do I place the quanties of paper printed? Do I just leave it in Printers?

Thanks.

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Queries :: Select Only Once A Field From Normalization Sheet Table

Sep 29, 2014

I am using this query to cluster a group of customers by monthly revenue. The issue is that I get duplicates. The customers appear more than once because the condition is valid more than once. How do I get access to select only once a field from Normalization sheet table??

SELECT [Cust Profile This Year].MSISDN, [Cust Profile This Year].[Total Revenue], [Normalization sheet].[Arpu Range] FROM [Normalization sheet], [Cust Profile This Year] WHERE ((([Cust Profile This Year].[Total Revenue])>=[Normalization sheet].[Arpu]));

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Best Way To Deal With Addresses Please.

Jun 10, 2005

Hi.
I have an Access 2000 database running on Windows 2000 Operating System. The database is on a shared drive on a network with approx 20 concurrent users. It runs a bit sluggishly so I am looking for ways to speed things up. The network guys say that the bit rate is OK so I need to tweak the database. I have run the performance and table analysers and get no suggestions for improvement. However, I have spotted a potential problem with the way addresses are stored.

Currently addresses are stored in the person table along with personal stuff like date of birth, gender, ethnicity etc. the address part has six fields:

Oh by the way - this is for the UK so the address structure has to be a bit flexible to accommodate quite a few variations of how addresses can be written but a reasonable guide is:

Number (or house name) and street name
(often a second line for part one of address)
Village / urban area
Town
County
Postcode

Part one of my question is - is this the best way to store this information or should I just gather it like this on a form and then store it as concatenated text in a single field.
I have tried this on a small test database and it works OK and prints address labels etc. - - But is it better or not?

Part two is - should the addresses be stored in the person table at all or should it be in a separate table. This is the bit I cannot get my head round. If it is in a separate table then each record in the table needs to be unique but because of the nature of the client base (i.e. students) many students share accommodation - OK a 1 to many relationship - but what about students in halls of residence they will have an individual room but the remainder of the address is the same. So for say 1000 students in the same hall 95% of the address is repeated although each address is unique overall. And with 4 halls there are 4000 entries that could potentially be reduced to 4 plus a room number and hall name, but I am not at all sure how to achieve this. And then what about addresses for students not in halls but shared houses? I cannot get my head round this. I can see why it was set up the way it was but there must be a better way.

Do I need one table, two tables or six tables (one for each field)?

And how do I then enter data? Do I have to have combo boxes on each line to see if that value has been entered before?

The data gathered would always be entered via forms so I can get the fields together but I don't know how many tables I need nor how best to relate them.


Can anyone suggest how I might get round this problem?

Thanks... Sprocket

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How To Deal With Events Across More Than One Day

Oct 7, 2005

Right this is a fundamental issue for me here and I cant get my head around the problem!!!

The database I am working on is a database which records the training courses (run by the NHS) which staff at GP surgeries in our area have attended and acts as a booking system for them.

So we have the obvious tables - one for courses (including the name, cost, etc) and then one for course dates (linked by courseID) and one called training_record which contains who went to what when.

It seems simple but it has come to my attention that for example, "Course A" may in fact take place over 2 days, which could be a week apart. The surgeries are billed in one invoice, i.e. Course A would be £100 for 2 days.

How would you recommend I have this data? I can see all sorts of confusion arising... :(

The only way I have thus far thought would be to put each one in like:

course name: cost date
Course A: day 1 £100 - 29/10/2005
Course A: day 2 n/a - 6/10/2005
Course A: day 1 £100 - 01/11/2005
Course A: day 2 n/a - 08/11/2005

However this seems long winded as some courses may be a few days long and this means adding each person to multiple ones!!!!

Any assistance with getting my head around this would be ace! :)

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May 13, 2007

I'm trying to create a database and it's going well accept for one facet. Some of my recipitents are not known by name. I am planning to use my database to issue letters, newsletters and the like but sometimes they will need to be addressed "Dear sir/madam" instead of "Dear Mr Smith" I was wondering to componsate for that in a database.

I've thought about using a "recipient" field, but I am not sure that would work too well as it would mean an extra field when it might not be needed (I can get "Dear Mr Smith" from fields such as Title and LastName).

I can't really get my head around it :(

One thing: Please don't think of me as some annoying mail-spam person. In truth I am a member of a charity but some of the businesses and charitable foundations we appeal to don't have named members for us to address letters to. Hence we need to use Dear Sir/Madam and the like.

:)

Please help me. I've hit my head on the wall so many times that I think I am going to demolish it!!

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Aug 27, 2013

I am having an issue where a small percentage of my records do not follow my related Tables.

ex: 3 tables
tblEmployee
-intEmployeeID
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tblWorkcenter
-intWorkCenterID

tblManager
-intManagerID
-intEmployeeID
-intWorkCenterID

where:
tblemployee.intworkcenterID -- tblworkcenter.intWorkcenterID -- tblManager.intWorkCenterID

Basically I have my general employee information in the tblemployee table, the workcenter information in the tblworkcenter, and the manager of the Workcenter in the tblManager. This is correct for 99% of the employee population. however, there are a few employees whose manager isn't the 'general' manager for the employees assigned workcenter.

How I can adjust an individual employees manager, while maintaining my structure? or would i have to go back and add the managers ID to a field in the tblEmployee Table?

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Jun 5, 2005

ok im working on a database that a company sends its employee to school and tracks there training.what classes they take what not.. my tables were fine until i realized that supervisors were also employees so i need to add a supervisorID i dont know how to do it without screwing up all my foreign keys i assume it goes into my employee table and department table but then where do i put my departmentID foreign key?

tblemployee(employeeID,firstname,lastname,phone,hi redate,payrate,DepartmentID)

tblDepartment(DepartmentID,name,supervisor)

tblClasses(ClassID,name,Description,credits,sectio n,TrainingID)

tblTraining(TrainingID,type)

tblClassEmployee(classID,EmployeeID,instructor,dat e)

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Jan 11, 2006

I currently have a database which I believe is in 3NF. It's completed as such, but I have recently come accross normalization methods. Because of this I would like to know how my 3NF tables could look in 0NF, 1NF and 2NF. For both the purpose of ensuring the database is correct now, and for future reference...to do a more professional job next time!!Here's how the tables currently look:CUSTOMERS(CustID, CustName, CustAddress)ORDERS(OrderID, CustID, OrderDate)ORDERDETAILS(OrderID, BookID, BookPrice, Quantity)BOOKS(BookID, AuthorID, BookName, BookUnitPrice)AUTHORS(AuthorID, AuthName, AuthAddress)It's just basically a simple book royalty system. I have looked around various sources for examples, but my database has a few more tables in 3NF than most examples show.Thanks guys.

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Oct 21, 2006

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/waloop/TempEmployment4.jpg

For my job history entity should I just store my placement number and remove the candidate number? Since placement number already determines the candidate number in the placement table.:confused:

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Apr 27, 2007

Please could you experts assist me on normalizing my tbl structure below-

Employee_EmployeeID
CompanyName
Employee_FirstName
Employee_Surname
Employee_Sex
Employee_DOB
Employee_Coverage
Address
City
County
PostCode
StartDate
LeaveDate
Employee_Health
Employee_Dental
Employee_Travel
Spouse / Partner_FirstName
Spouse / Partner_Surname
Spouse / Partner_Sex
Spouse / Partner_DOB
Spouse / Partner_Coverage
Spouse / Partner_Health
Spouse / Partner_Dental
Spouse / Partner_Travel
Child 1_FirstName
Child 1_Surname
Child 1_Sex
Child 1_DOB
Child 1_Coverage
Child 1_Health
Child 1_Dental
Child 1_Travel
Child 2_FirstName
Child 2_Surname
Child 2_Sex
Child 2_DOB
Child 2_Coverage
Child 2_Health
Child 2_Dental
Child 2_Travel
Child 3_FirstName
Child 3_Surname
Child 3_Sex
Child 3_DOB
Child 3_Coverage
Child 3_Health
Child 3_Dental
Child 3_Travel
Child 4_FirstName
Child 4_Surname
Child 4_Sex
Child 4_DOB
Child4_Coverage
Child 4_Health
Child 4_Dental
Child 4_Travel
Child 5_FirstName
Child 5_Surname
Child 5_Sex
Child 5_DOB
Child 5_Coverage
Child 5_Health
Child 5_Dental
Child 5_Travel
Child 6_FirstName
Child 6_Surname
Child 6_Sex
Child 6_DOB
Child 6_Coverage
Child 6_Health
Child 6_Dental
Child 6_Travel
Notes
DateUpdated


Hope you can help me!
Ta
Kasey

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Sep 10, 2007

I have decided to normalize further and now have brain freeze. I have a table 'tblComputers'. I have removed Computer Make + Computer Model to own tables and linked via ComputerMakeID & ComputerModelID, this is working OK.

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Hope that makes sense?
Regards,
Phil.

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Oct 8, 2006

I currently have three tables.

The first table contains Employee ID, and Name of Employee

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The third table contains an autonumber and a unique PIN

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Nov 20, 2007

I'm not a programmer and know very little about setting up access databases other than the very basics...however...due to my politics background, I'm setting them up for the local government....just my little disclaimer about why I'm asking stupid questions.

I am creating a database for multiple users who are of two sorts. The users deal with either the setting up of a contract, or with the payment of a contract. Both of these groups need to be able to access different information about the same contracts. What seems most logical to me is to create two tables in the same database, one for the contract, and one for the payment information and have both update when one or the other is worked on.

My basic set up for now is this:
Table One: contract information
Table Two: Payment information
Link Key: Serial Number from contracts
These are my questions:

1) is there a way to set this up so that the only way someone from the payments group can create a linked record is if a record with the same serial number already exists in the contracts table?
2)Is there a way I can set it up so that when someone in the payments group starts to input their information, they can find the serial number they want, and have certain fields show up? For example: I want them to be able to search for a serial number and have the contract name show up with all of the previously entered payment information, then have a new field each time they go into it for their next payment (if that makes sense).
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Sorry if this is so confused...I'm sort of learning as I go along.

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Dec 8, 2007

I am having some questions on a order entry DB I'm working on, (modifying an existing one). I've attached a shot of the current relationships to demonstrate. Basically to start this was an order entry db to place orders to one vendor, so this was not a problem then... But.. Now I am modifying it to order from more then one vendor. So, I have the order form. You first pick the Vendor the order is going to, then the Customer and delivery site. Next you move to a subform to pick your items from a dropdown. So the problem... I have a new table for the Vendors. This table is related to the "Order Table" on a one to many. But what I also need is the VendorID to be in the table "tblItem" Thus when the Vendor is picked in the main form ,it can be filtered in the subform to only show items from this vendor. Now this would work by placing the Vendor ID in the "tblItems" table and relating the two. But would this be proper normalization to have the VenforID as a FK in two tables???

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Mar 13, 2008

Newbie Access user here. Using Access 2003.

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Jan 4, 2005

Hello all,
I have been tasked to create a database to track tooling information for my company. I have a solid idea on the process involved and would like some help getting my tables and relationships setup with normalization. I have noticed in the short time I have been learning access that normalization is the key to happiness.

Anyway here is what I have:

tblModel
*ModelID
ModelYear
ModelCustomer
ModelStartDate

tblParts
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ModelID
PartDescription
PartProcess

tblTools
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ModelID
ToolSource
ToolComments
ToolComplete

tblProjects
*ProjectID
ModelID
ToolQtyNeeded
PartQtyNeeded

A short synopsis on how this should work:
A model is built from many different parts, these parts are sometimes (usually not always) associated with the tool that is used to build them. A tool could be used to make several different parts and some parts use several tools.
In addition to this, a model can use a different quantity of parts to build it and those parts can require different quantities of tools to produce them.

I have tried several different ways to relate these tables together, and would like to ask the braintrust that is this forums for any help they could give me.


Thanks again

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May 16, 2005

Hey buddays,

I have a contract-tracking database that has been in use for about a year. It used to be that every contract had the same number of periodical "applications" with it - the companies we worked with would send in 4 applications over time.

So, I had this set up:

tblCompanies (the companies with whom we work)
- CompanyID (Primary Key autonumber)
- CompanyName
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tblContracts (the contracts we issue)
- ContractID (Primary Key autonumber)
- CompanyID (foreign Key)
- DateIssued

tblApplications (things companies send back to us over time)
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- AppDesc (description of the application - something like "Application 1", "Application 2" , etc.

tblAppsRecvd (Join table/log of apps received)
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Pretty self explanatory. Everything was keen, and I was reaping the rewards of a job well done.

But now we've expanded out contract offerings. He have introduced 2 new types of contracts, and each contract has a different amount of applications associated with it.

Contract 1 has 4 apps.
Contract 2 has 2 apps.
Contract 3 can have 1 to 8 apps. (The last app before a contract closure is always considered "Final" - so if we get 5 apps, it would be apps 1, 2, 3, 4, and Final.)

I've tried implementing a couple different schemes, but none seem to be fitting the bill. The type of contract will dictate how many apps we receive - i.e. If we are using Contract 1, then we KNOW we'll recieve 4 apps over time. So, is this as simple as adding a "ContractTypeID" to the tblContracts with an appropriate tblContractType table, and expanding tblApplication to more apps, or is there a smarter scheme?

Thanks, buddays!

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Sep 15, 2006

Im setting up a database that contains information about printed circuit boards that are being developed for our current project. The information that i need includes the following:

Board # - 3 digit number
Board Name -
Module # - 9-digit number
Module Name -
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May 21, 2007

I have a PO DB that I'm trying to normalize. For the most part it is normalized but there are 2 fields that are not normalized because they repeat data. So I'm trying to restructure a bit and having some problems when it comes to data entry via forms.

There is also a PO table above this one but is not used in the subform for the details.
My old set up for my PODetailsTable

PODetailsID pk
PO fk
Item
Quantity
Price
Allocation

I want my new set up to be
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PODetailsID pk
PO
ItemID fk
Quantity
Price
AllocationID fk

ItemTable
ItemID pk
Item

AllocationTable
AllocationID pk
Allocation

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Here is a A2K format of it which is how it currently works. In the relationships window you can see an example of how I want it but can't get to work.

17501

Thanks JOe K.

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Jul 20, 2007

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Also, I am willing to learn. So feel free to harass and advise.

Many thanks in advance.
---------------------------

Name(StudentID, First, Last, Middle, Maiden, Spouse, Prefix, Suffix)

EmploymentHistory(StudentID, OrgID, Title, BeginDate, EndDate)

Organizations(OrgID, OrgName, OrgAddress, OrgCity, OrgState, OrgPostalCode, OrgCountry)

InitialEmploy(StudentID, OrgID, Title, BeginDate, EndDate)

HomeAddress(StudentID, Address, City, Sate, PostalCode, Country)

ParentRelation(StudentID, ParentID, ParentLast, ParentFirst, Spouse, Preffix, Suffix)

ParentAddress(ParentID, Address, City, State, PostalCode, Country)

ParentPhone(ParentID,P_Phone)

WorkPhone(StudentID, W_Phone)

HomePhone(StudentID, H_Phone)

MobilePhone(StudentID, M_Phone)

Fax(StudentID, Fax)

Email(StudentID, Email)

EducationUnder(StudentID, UnderMajor, InstID, Emphasis, BSDate)

AdvisorRelation(StudentID, AdvisorID)

AdvisorName(AdvisorID, AdvisorLast, AdvisorFirst)

EducationCheck(StudentID, BS Degree, MS Degree, PhD Degree, Prof Degree)

BSHonors(StudentID, BS Honors Thesis Title)

EducationMS(StudentID, GradMajor, InstID, MS Honors Thesis Title, MS Date)

EducationPhD(StudentID, FieldofStudy, InstID, PhD Dissertation Title, PhD Date)

EducationLaw(StudentID, InstID, JD Date)

EducationMedical(StudentID, InstID, MD Date)

Institution(InstID, Institution Name, City, State, Country)

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Mar 11, 2008

Hi,

I'm designing a database for my place of work. I've created the tables and relationships, and would like to know if the design conforms to Normalization?

A .jpg is attached to this message showing the relationships.

Any help would be appreciated. :)

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Jul 24, 2005

I have two forms bound to different tables. I will use an example to illustrate my problem.
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My first form records the author and the second form records the document info. I have 3 problems. The first is setting up a procedure to make sure the authors name does not already exist. The second is creating a link between the forms so that the authors name is linked to the document the first time. (If you have read any of my other posts you know this is part of law office db and everything is already linked by client and case so this would be a third link for these two forms. All 3 links are necessary here because the same authors may send docuements on more than one case). And my third problem is setting up some sort of query or lookup procedure so that I can link the author to the docuement. I cant use the author as a lookup table because I dont know the authors ahead of time and there will constantly be additions to the authors. Its complicated bythe fact that I need to check each docuement to see if its written by an existing author or new author. I'm almost tempted to combine the tables and use one form but that would be serious violation of normalization. Some Authors will be sending in excess of 50 documents. Can anyone help me. I am completly at a loss as to how to do this.

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Dec 29, 2005

Hi,

I am building a database for a clinic to house patient information. At the moment, there are 300-400 fields in 6 tables all linked in one-to-one relationships by a file number (PK). The clinic wanted the forms to look like the paper forms they use to assess patients (15 different forms), so I created forms that are all linked by command buttons so they open sequentially, and the File Number autopopulates in the next form. Trouble is some forms are based on multiple tables, and I keep getting the message..."causes duplicate values in primary key...cannot save record at this time". I would like to add a new record to all the tables by entering the PK in one field first, and then enter the data by opening the forms in edit mode- this seems impossible.
I have this sinking feeling that my tables are not normalized and my design is flawed.
This is the type of information I have, and would like to keep confidential data in a separate table with limited permissions:

tblConfidentialDemographicInfo
file number
patient name
dob
parent name
mailing address
city
postal code
telephone number
parent employer
pediatrican
child psychologist
school name
teacher name
custody arrangement
research study participation (10 studies...option group, 1 for yes, 2 for no)

tblDiagnostic (MH disorders, all option groups (1 for yes, 2 for no)
Tourette's
ADHD
Depression
Bipolar
Learning Disability
Etc.

tblHomeInformation
many questions with multiple responses in drop-down box
num children in home
pregnancy details (bleeding, c-section, breech- again all option groups)
numerical scores on questionnaires

tblSchoolInformation
test scores
observations in school
split grade
special help (list)

tblPsychoeducational Assessment
IQ scores for subscales and full scale
scores on achievement tests (numerical)

Any suggestions appreciated,
Thank you very much in advance.

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Feb 9, 2005

This is a database that was handed off to me for upgrading.

The person who initially created it made the Name field in the table contain the entire name... So a single entry in the field looks like

CHRIS R LOUNSBURY

The table is in the attached table. This is merely a sampling. The main table has over 3,000 names in it. Is there an easy (or maybe not so easy) way to automatically parse that data and split the names into their own fields.

An example would be the string CHRIS R LOUNSBURY. Run code which takes the string left to right to the first blank space, and splits it off into First Name field. Take the last part of the string (right to left) to the first white space and put it in the Last Name field.

Is this possible? Or do I need to find myself a temp employee to data entry all this over again

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