Normalization Question
Dec 8, 2007
I am having some questions on a order entry DB I'm working on, (modifying an existing one). I've attached a shot of the current relationships to demonstrate. Basically to start this was an order entry db to place orders to one vendor, so this was not a problem then... But.. Now I am modifying it to order from more then one vendor. So, I have the order form. You first pick the Vendor the order is going to, then the Customer and delivery site. Next you move to a subform to pick your items from a dropdown. So the problem... I have a new table for the Vendors. This table is related to the "Order Table" on a one to many. But what I also need is the VendorID to be in the table "tblItem" Thus when the Vendor is picked in the main form ,it can be filtered in the subform to only show items from this vendor. Now this would work by placing the Vendor ID in the "tblItems" table and relating the two. But would this be proper normalization to have the VenforID as a FK in two tables???
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Jun 5, 2005
ok im working on a database that a company sends its employee to school and tracks there training.what classes they take what not.. my tables were fine until i realized that supervisors were also employees so i need to add a supervisorID i dont know how to do it without screwing up all my foreign keys i assume it goes into my employee table and department table but then where do i put my departmentID foreign key?
tblemployee(employeeID,firstname,lastname,phone,hi redate,payrate,DepartmentID)
tblDepartment(DepartmentID,name,supervisor)
tblClasses(ClassID,name,Description,credits,sectio n,TrainingID)
tblTraining(TrainingID,type)
tblClassEmployee(classID,EmployeeID,instructor,dat e)
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Jan 11, 2006
I currently have a database which I believe is in 3NF. It's completed as such, but I have recently come accross normalization methods. Because of this I would like to know how my 3NF tables could look in 0NF, 1NF and 2NF. For both the purpose of ensuring the database is correct now, and for future reference...to do a more professional job next time!!Here's how the tables currently look:CUSTOMERS(CustID, CustName, CustAddress)ORDERS(OrderID, CustID, OrderDate)ORDERDETAILS(OrderID, BookID, BookPrice, Quantity)BOOKS(BookID, AuthorID, BookName, BookUnitPrice)AUTHORS(AuthorID, AuthName, AuthAddress)It's just basically a simple book royalty system. I have looked around various sources for examples, but my database has a few more tables in 3NF than most examples show.Thanks guys.
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Oct 21, 2006
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/waloop/TempEmployment4.jpg
For my job history entity should I just store my placement number and remove the candidate number? Since placement number already determines the candidate number in the placement table.:confused:
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Apr 27, 2007
Please could you experts assist me on normalizing my tbl structure below-
Employee_EmployeeID
CompanyName
Employee_FirstName
Employee_Surname
Employee_Sex
Employee_DOB
Employee_Coverage
Address
City
County
PostCode
StartDate
LeaveDate
Employee_Health
Employee_Dental
Employee_Travel
Spouse / Partner_FirstName
Spouse / Partner_Surname
Spouse / Partner_Sex
Spouse / Partner_DOB
Spouse / Partner_Coverage
Spouse / Partner_Health
Spouse / Partner_Dental
Spouse / Partner_Travel
Child 1_FirstName
Child 1_Surname
Child 1_Sex
Child 1_DOB
Child 1_Coverage
Child 1_Health
Child 1_Dental
Child 1_Travel
Child 2_FirstName
Child 2_Surname
Child 2_Sex
Child 2_DOB
Child 2_Coverage
Child 2_Health
Child 2_Dental
Child 2_Travel
Child 3_FirstName
Child 3_Surname
Child 3_Sex
Child 3_DOB
Child 3_Coverage
Child 3_Health
Child 3_Dental
Child 3_Travel
Child 4_FirstName
Child 4_Surname
Child 4_Sex
Child 4_DOB
Child4_Coverage
Child 4_Health
Child 4_Dental
Child 4_Travel
Child 5_FirstName
Child 5_Surname
Child 5_Sex
Child 5_DOB
Child 5_Coverage
Child 5_Health
Child 5_Dental
Child 5_Travel
Child 6_FirstName
Child 6_Surname
Child 6_Sex
Child 6_DOB
Child 6_Coverage
Child 6_Health
Child 6_Dental
Child 6_Travel
Notes
DateUpdated
Hope you can help me!
Ta
Kasey
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Sep 10, 2007
I have decided to normalize further and now have brain freeze. I have a table 'tblComputers'. I have removed Computer Make + Computer Model to own tables and linked via ComputerMakeID & ComputerModelID, this is working OK.
I then decided to remove RAM to its own table. I created tblRAM. I added additional rows in tblComputers 'Memory Slot 1' Memory Slot 2' etc. tblRAM has 2 columns RamID & RAM so....RAMID 0 = 0 RAMID 1=128 RAMID2=256 etc..
My issues? What to link RAM to relationship wise then allow users to select multiple instances for different memory configurations to save values back to 'Memory Slot 1' 'Memory Slot 2' in tblComputers?
Hope that makes sense?
Regards,
Phil.
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Oct 8, 2006
I currently have three tables.
The first table contains Employee ID, and Name of Employee
Second table contains Employee ID, and an autonumber
The third table contains an autonumber and a unique PIN
The 1st/2nd table are connected by Employee ID, the 2nd/3rd table connected by the autonumber. Now not every Employee gets the unique pin and the 3rd table gets re-done every year. This structure works great for all "current" employees. Employees that leave get deleted out of the 1st table, thus causing them to get deleted out of the second table due to relationship. This becomes a problem because I need to keep a record of who had what unique PIN, regardless of who is still assigned one or not. Anybody have any ideas on how to do this.
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Nov 20, 2007
I'm not a programmer and know very little about setting up access databases other than the very basics...however...due to my politics background, I'm setting them up for the local government....just my little disclaimer about why I'm asking stupid questions.
I am creating a database for multiple users who are of two sorts. The users deal with either the setting up of a contract, or with the payment of a contract. Both of these groups need to be able to access different information about the same contracts. What seems most logical to me is to create two tables in the same database, one for the contract, and one for the payment information and have both update when one or the other is worked on.
My basic set up for now is this:
Table One: contract information
Table Two: Payment information
Link Key: Serial Number from contracts
These are my questions:
1) is there a way to set this up so that the only way someone from the payments group can create a linked record is if a record with the same serial number already exists in the contracts table?
2)Is there a way I can set it up so that when someone in the payments group starts to input their information, they can find the serial number they want, and have certain fields show up? For example: I want them to be able to search for a serial number and have the contract name show up with all of the previously entered payment information, then have a new field each time they go into it for their next payment (if that makes sense).
3) When linking, hopefully in such a way as to do the above, do I need to have the same field name in both tables, or...? I'm a bit confused as to how this works as initially i created a field in both tables that would have the same serial number and tried to link those..and it didn't work.
Sorry if this is so confused...I'm sort of learning as I go along.
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Mar 13, 2008
Newbie Access user here. Using Access 2003.
I am putting 80 rows (personnel) of data with about 20 columns (training courses), to track training for my people. Is this enough that I would need to make several tables, or am I correct in thinking I can put it all in one table? From what I have been reading, this is a pretty small table, but I want to make sure.
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Jan 4, 2005
Hello all,
I have been tasked to create a database to track tooling information for my company. I have a solid idea on the process involved and would like some help getting my tables and relationships setup with normalization. I have noticed in the short time I have been learning access that normalization is the key to happiness.
Anyway here is what I have:
tblModel
*ModelID
ModelYear
ModelCustomer
ModelStartDate
tblParts
*PartNumber
ModelID
PartDescription
PartProcess
tblTools
*ToolNumber
ModelID
ToolSource
ToolComments
ToolComplete
tblProjects
*ProjectID
ModelID
ToolQtyNeeded
PartQtyNeeded
A short synopsis on how this should work:
A model is built from many different parts, these parts are sometimes (usually not always) associated with the tool that is used to build them. A tool could be used to make several different parts and some parts use several tools.
In addition to this, a model can use a different quantity of parts to build it and those parts can require different quantities of tools to produce them.
I have tried several different ways to relate these tables together, and would like to ask the braintrust that is this forums for any help they could give me.
Thanks again
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May 16, 2005
Hey buddays,
I have a contract-tracking database that has been in use for about a year. It used to be that every contract had the same number of periodical "applications" with it - the companies we worked with would send in 4 applications over time.
So, I had this set up:
tblCompanies (the companies with whom we work)
- CompanyID (Primary Key autonumber)
- CompanyName
- Address, contact info, etc.
tblContracts (the contracts we issue)
- ContractID (Primary Key autonumber)
- CompanyID (foreign Key)
- DateIssued
tblApplications (things companies send back to us over time)
- AppID (Primary Key autonumber)
- AppDesc (description of the application - something like "Application 1", "Application 2" , etc.
tblAppsRecvd (Join table/log of apps received)
- ContractID (foreign key to tblContracts, so we know which contract this applies to) (also a composite primary key, so we don't duplicate an app to a contract)
- AppID (foreign key to tblApplications, so we know which application we rcvd) (also a composite primary key, so we don't duplicate an app to a contract)
- DateRcvd
Pretty self explanatory. Everything was keen, and I was reaping the rewards of a job well done.
But now we've expanded out contract offerings. He have introduced 2 new types of contracts, and each contract has a different amount of applications associated with it.
Contract 1 has 4 apps.
Contract 2 has 2 apps.
Contract 3 can have 1 to 8 apps. (The last app before a contract closure is always considered "Final" - so if we get 5 apps, it would be apps 1, 2, 3, 4, and Final.)
I've tried implementing a couple different schemes, but none seem to be fitting the bill. The type of contract will dictate how many apps we receive - i.e. If we are using Contract 1, then we KNOW we'll recieve 4 apps over time. So, is this as simple as adding a "ContractTypeID" to the tblContracts with an appropriate tblContractType table, and expanding tblApplication to more apps, or is there a smarter scheme?
Thanks, buddays!
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Sep 15, 2006
Im setting up a database that contains information about printed circuit boards that are being developed for our current project. The information that i need includes the following:
Board # - 3 digit number
Board Name -
Module # - 9-digit number
Module Name -
Project Leader - engineer responsible for design
In/Out/Oem - inhouse, outsourced, or purchased OEM
Designer - engineer or outsource contractor who designed the board
MFG/Assembler - company responsible for building the boards
Directory - file on network drive the drawings are located in
There can be mutiple boards in a single module. So i have 3 tables right now.
pcb_tbl - this includes all the info above minus the module info.
Module_tbl - this table includes the module number and name and responsible engineer, with the module number being the key.
module_pcb_tbl - this table lists the module number in the first field linked to the module table, and the pcb number in the second field linked to the PCB table.
Am i doing this right?
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May 21, 2007
I have a PO DB that I'm trying to normalize. For the most part it is normalized but there are 2 fields that are not normalized because they repeat data. So I'm trying to restructure a bit and having some problems when it comes to data entry via forms.
There is also a PO table above this one but is not used in the subform for the details.
My old set up for my PODetailsTable
PODetailsID pk
PO fk
Item
Quantity
Price
Allocation
I want my new set up to be
PODetailsTable
PODetailsID pk
PO
ItemID fk
Quantity
Price
AllocationID fk
ItemTable
ItemID pk
Item
AllocationTable
AllocationID pk
Allocation
On my form I can't enter anything that is already on the ItemTable. I looked at some microsoft sample DB's and they have you enter the item from a different form then you can select it in from the combo box which would really slow down data entry peticularly early on.
Is there a way I can type the Item in and if its new, it will be put it on the ItemTable associate an ItemID to both tables?? But if its already in the Itemtable just apply the already existing PK on ItemTable to the FK ItemID on the PODetails Table for that record??
Here is a A2K format of it which is how it currently works. In the relationships window you can see an example of how I want it but can't get to work.
17501
Thanks JOe K.
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Jul 20, 2007
I have recently been blessed with an 80 column excel sheet and am in the process of producing a normalized db; however, I am not sure that I am following the rules correctly. If anyone is willing to check it over, below is a copy of my potential relationships.
Also, I am willing to learn. So feel free to harass and advise.
Many thanks in advance.
---------------------------
Name(StudentID, First, Last, Middle, Maiden, Spouse, Prefix, Suffix)
EmploymentHistory(StudentID, OrgID, Title, BeginDate, EndDate)
Organizations(OrgID, OrgName, OrgAddress, OrgCity, OrgState, OrgPostalCode, OrgCountry)
InitialEmploy(StudentID, OrgID, Title, BeginDate, EndDate)
HomeAddress(StudentID, Address, City, Sate, PostalCode, Country)
ParentRelation(StudentID, ParentID, ParentLast, ParentFirst, Spouse, Preffix, Suffix)
ParentAddress(ParentID, Address, City, State, PostalCode, Country)
ParentPhone(ParentID,P_Phone)
WorkPhone(StudentID, W_Phone)
HomePhone(StudentID, H_Phone)
MobilePhone(StudentID, M_Phone)
Fax(StudentID, Fax)
Email(StudentID, Email)
EducationUnder(StudentID, UnderMajor, InstID, Emphasis, BSDate)
AdvisorRelation(StudentID, AdvisorID)
AdvisorName(AdvisorID, AdvisorLast, AdvisorFirst)
EducationCheck(StudentID, BS Degree, MS Degree, PhD Degree, Prof Degree)
BSHonors(StudentID, BS Honors Thesis Title)
EducationMS(StudentID, GradMajor, InstID, MS Honors Thesis Title, MS Date)
EducationPhD(StudentID, FieldofStudy, InstID, PhD Dissertation Title, PhD Date)
EducationLaw(StudentID, InstID, JD Date)
EducationMedical(StudentID, InstID, MD Date)
Institution(InstID, Institution Name, City, State, Country)
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Mar 11, 2008
Hi,
I'm designing a database for my place of work. I've created the tables and relationships, and would like to know if the design conforms to Normalization?
A .jpg is attached to this message showing the relationships.
Any help would be appreciated. :)
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Jul 24, 2005
I have two forms bound to different tables. I will use an example to illustrate my problem.
I have 4 people who have each sent me 5 documents. I do not currently know the identity of these 4 people so I can not create a lookup table. In the future they will continue to send me docuements. In addition, other people, currently unknown, will send me documents.
My first form records the author and the second form records the document info. I have 3 problems. The first is setting up a procedure to make sure the authors name does not already exist. The second is creating a link between the forms so that the authors name is linked to the document the first time. (If you have read any of my other posts you know this is part of law office db and everything is already linked by client and case so this would be a third link for these two forms. All 3 links are necessary here because the same authors may send docuements on more than one case). And my third problem is setting up some sort of query or lookup procedure so that I can link the author to the docuement. I cant use the author as a lookup table because I dont know the authors ahead of time and there will constantly be additions to the authors. Its complicated bythe fact that I need to check each docuement to see if its written by an existing author or new author. I'm almost tempted to combine the tables and use one form but that would be serious violation of normalization. Some Authors will be sending in excess of 50 documents. Can anyone help me. I am completly at a loss as to how to do this.
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Dec 29, 2005
Hi,
I am building a database for a clinic to house patient information. At the moment, there are 300-400 fields in 6 tables all linked in one-to-one relationships by a file number (PK). The clinic wanted the forms to look like the paper forms they use to assess patients (15 different forms), so I created forms that are all linked by command buttons so they open sequentially, and the File Number autopopulates in the next form. Trouble is some forms are based on multiple tables, and I keep getting the message..."causes duplicate values in primary key...cannot save record at this time". I would like to add a new record to all the tables by entering the PK in one field first, and then enter the data by opening the forms in edit mode- this seems impossible.
I have this sinking feeling that my tables are not normalized and my design is flawed.
This is the type of information I have, and would like to keep confidential data in a separate table with limited permissions:
tblConfidentialDemographicInfo
file number
patient name
dob
parent name
mailing address
city
postal code
telephone number
parent employer
pediatrican
child psychologist
school name
teacher name
custody arrangement
research study participation (10 studies...option group, 1 for yes, 2 for no)
tblDiagnostic (MH disorders, all option groups (1 for yes, 2 for no)
Tourette's
ADHD
Depression
Bipolar
Learning Disability
Etc.
tblHomeInformation
many questions with multiple responses in drop-down box
num children in home
pregnancy details (bleeding, c-section, breech- again all option groups)
numerical scores on questionnaires
tblSchoolInformation
test scores
observations in school
split grade
special help (list)
tblPsychoeducational Assessment
IQ scores for subscales and full scale
scores on achievement tests (numerical)
Any suggestions appreciated,
Thank you very much in advance.
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Feb 9, 2005
This is a database that was handed off to me for upgrading.
The person who initially created it made the Name field in the table contain the entire name... So a single entry in the field looks like
CHRIS R LOUNSBURY
The table is in the attached table. This is merely a sampling. The main table has over 3,000 names in it. Is there an easy (or maybe not so easy) way to automatically parse that data and split the names into their own fields.
An example would be the string CHRIS R LOUNSBURY. Run code which takes the string left to right to the first blank space, and splits it off into First Name field. Take the last part of the string (right to left) to the first white space and put it in the Last Name field.
Is this possible? Or do I need to find myself a temp employee to data entry all this over again
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Jun 19, 2005
The question is whether or not to normalize the fields "Place of Birth/Place of Death" in my 100'000 records famous people data base. So far, 15'000 different birth places are deployed. Only 3'000 of them are used more then once, that is to say from 2 to a maximum of 1000 times (New York City). 12'000 birth places are therefor used only once up to now. So, a table of 15'000 places would need a 3-digit (all characters used) or even a 5-digit (numbers only used) identification. In the latter case the ident would often be longer than the returned value (Wien, Oslo, Rom, it's in german, you know). Furthermore, instead of just entering a birth place like "Novodny Chomarowsky" I had to search the table of places whether or not the entry has been used yet. Please supply strong pro-normalization-arguments.
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Dec 4, 2005
Greetings-
I am having trouble with the table design of my db.:confused:
What I am is a human resource supervisor trying to develope a database to
track the hundreds of actions that come in and out if my office on a weekly basis.
I am almost there, in regards to table setup and relationship setup, except I am stuck on something and any advive I can get would help tremendously.
Here is what is going on:
I need to be able to relate my customers to the actions they turn in..and track them, the actions, until complete.
I have attached my db and will answer any questions needed. Will someone please take a look at it and evaluate what you may think is needed to get the "ball" rolling.
Thank you for your help
DW
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May 12, 2006
hey,
Am new to the forum and it seems a good place for help,
Am having some big problems with a database that i am using for a company. The problem being that users need to enter ref numbers for each record on to the database called "c3" numbers, there could be a unlimited amount of these numbers(they do need to be able to reported on though) per record
At the moment i have a serperate form linked to my original form with a lot of seperate fields labelled like "c3number", "c3number1", c3number2" and so on which the user enters the c3 numbers into ans saves
however it is becoming very hard to do counting reports with it set up like this.
has anybody any ideas's on how i could make the setup simpler?
many thanks
Steve
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Jul 31, 2006
Hi Guys,
I decided to normalize my addresses out of COMPANY and CONTRACT entries into a seperate table. This idea works fine until I try to add new entries or update existing entries.
Normalization has made it impossble for my database to function properly.
Heres the situation: Company Mainform, AddressSubform.
AddressID PK for Address
AddressID FK for Company
Add New Company: Enter Company Name, Company Address ID Defaults to 0 (which is not an AddressID), I insert code in the AfterUpdate of the CompanyName to make AddressID "", ok, insert rest of company data.
Insert Unit or Street data for Address, get error message saying I cant enter this data, push ok, continue to enter data, enter new autonumber Manually in AddressID field for Company, pull hair out, scream a little, Close.
... This is the only way I can find of making this happen. The problem is that the AddressID for company needs an AddressID from Address that hasnt been created yet. The error message when entering address information has to do with the fact that the AddressIDs wont match up for this record.
An examples attached... i think its a principal anomoly... let me know if you can resolve it..
Thanks!
BG
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Apr 25, 2005
I am having trouble visualizing how to break out the following info into functional Tables
I have a table to hold Items
tblListG1Items
IDItemList
ITemNumber
ItemName
I then have a detail table
tblDetailG1Items
IDItemDetail
FKToItemList
ItemMFG
ItemMSP
ItemLead
Here is where I get lost.
Each item has a variable for each month
So item 1
January = .01
February = .03
ECT.
Once set the Variables rarely change, at most once per year.
I will need to be able to pull an item and based on what month it is pulled uses the variable to multiply several other factures.
My first Thought was,
tblVarItemList
IDVarList
FKToItemList
VarJanF
VarFebF
VarMarF
--And so on--
It just does not look right.
Any Suggestions on what might work Better. :confused:
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May 31, 2005
Hi, I want to create an access app that will allow a user to see the number of pages printed by various printers.
These are the data that I have:
Model Type (various are available)
Printer's name (unique to one printer)
IP addr (unique to printer)
Quantity printed (such as Single Legal, Double Legal, Single Letter,etc)
This is what I have (2 tabels with 1-many relationship):
Printers
PrinterID
Model
Name
IP
ModelTypes
ModelID
Model
Now, where do I place the quanties of paper printed? Do I just leave it in Printers?
Thanks.
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Oct 31, 2005
Hello.
I have a simple modeling question. Lets say I have the following table structure:
Table 1
-------
Cust_id
Cust_name
Phone
City
Supplier_id
Dept
Table 2
-------
Supplier_id
Supplier_name
phone
City
Table 3
-------
Dept
Table 1 is M-to-1 with Table 3. Table 2 is 1-to-M with Table 1.
I have seen such as schema and do not understand why there needs to be a separate Table 3. Can someone explain why Table 1 alone would not suffice and Table 3 would not be required?
Basically, can someone explain the rationale for normalizing tables when there do not exist sufficient associated data for the field for which a new table is created (i.e. in this example, if Dept had a lot of other fileds associated with it such as Dept_desc, Dept_Mgr etc , then I can see the value in creating a different Dept table and joining it with Cust table through a Dept_id field).
A similar such design exists in the standard "Address Book" sample schema that ships with Access (the analog field in question there is Role).
Thank you for your response.
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Apr 8, 2008
Hello,
I have attached a screenshot of the relationships in (a section of) a database I am working on. Would anyone please be willing to view it and offer any suggestions as to whether is fully normalized or not? Here is the description:
An account [table, Account] consists of some money. That money is split-up and invested into several different places.
The funds that are available as choices are in Fund; the funds that are chosen are in InvestmentInstance. Different, unaffiliated accounts can invest in the same fund. I would like to keep track of when an account begins to invest in a fund and when it stops investing there (“InceptionDate” and “CloseDate”).
The generic, account-independent performance of a fund is kept in Price, where the values come from Yahoo! Finance or something like that.
Similar to Price, MarketValue stores the dollar-amount of an investment, specific to an account.
I think I have most of it set OK, but my main concern is about the relationship between InvestmentInstance and MarketValue. As the picture shows, I use InvestmentInstance’s “Id”* as the “one” in the one-to-many relationship, but “Id” is not a primary key. To get it to work, it was necessary to set the Index option to, “Yes (No Duplicates),” so that it was a unique index. Is this a bad practice? Should I just include “Id” as part of the compound primary key? I didn’t think making it part of the compound key was a good idea because then it would defeat the purpose of having “FundId” and “AccountId” control the uniqueness of records. Am I missing something important?
In other words, how can I correctly create a one-to-many relationship that begins in a juntion table (InvestmentInstance) and connects to a new table that was not involved in the normalized many-to-many relationship (MarketValue)?
Thank you!
* I know many like to include the table name in the ID, like, “InvestmentInstanceId,” and it is only my preference to keep it just as “Id” for a local key for simplicity, but add the table name when it becomes a foreign key. I feel “Id” is good enough for my purposes and it’s table location is usually clear from the context.
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